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1929 - botu (Garden) - 2006-06-21
(Dimension: 3038 x 2050 pixels - Counter: 5268)
Trillium kurabayashii
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(Uploaded as: Trillium cuneatum)
Photographer: Eric Gouda
Note: 1985BL00105 In Utrecht Botanic Gardens: received as Trillium kurabayashii, later as Trillium foetidissimum in the garden, but now identified as this species.
Identification:
- Identification: Eric Gouda (2010-05-03) =Trillium kurabayashii
- We got the plant (1991) with the name Trillium kurabayashii and in 2005 I identified it as Trillium foetidissimum then in 2007 I looked again and re-identified it as Trillium cuneatum. Now the plants are more than 3 times the size and has become a nice group. I think the anther dehiscence is predominantly introrse, so I have to review my identification, going back to the first name it had: Trillium kurabayashii (please convince me that I'm wrong) (Sent: Trillium-l@nic.surfnet.nl) - Note: Russ Graham (2010-05-04) - I "think" you have it right Eric! Right enough that I CANNOT recommend any expert that can refute you (more below). I can confidently suggest that there is no regular "poster" to this list that has enough exposure to wild specimens to offer meaningful clarification (I hope someone will convince me I am wrong)!
It is great fun to learn "others" can get as confused as I seem to be regarding just "what" a particular plant might "really" be.
I spent several hours with Freeman's dissertation last summer and did not find the effort comforting. (He mentioned the "need" to do more comparative work with cuneatum and kurabayashii for example, which he did not do.) I learned that his total field experience in the west was essentially 10 days covering very limited portions of CA, OR, WA and ID, something that is not easy to do even without collecting herbarium samples and "creating" 3 NEW species. He uses 4 "distinctive" purples to describe the differences in the western sessiles, many individuals of which vary in color that much during the bloom cycle. He offers that chloropetalum ALWAYS has yellow pigment present but I still have not found any way to understand how that conclusion was drawn. He seemed to discount the awareness that there were pink flowered populations of albidum. On and on and after having seen only a tiny sampling of the diversity and variability that occurs in nature "out here". PLUS he was very careful to list a number of "challenges" associated with working with Herbarium sheets and yet his conclusions (and reassigning the species name on the sheets as he worked) in a number of instances HAD to be based on those 10,000 sheets he reviewed.
I am not wanting to in any way discount the amazing work Freeman accomplished, however, I am certain there is more work that really needs to be done.
So far, I have not found an "expert" with enough exposure to what exists in the West that has any real confidence in assigning species identification to individual plants within some populations OR to some individuals when "out of context". Hence my comments in the first paragraph. In fact there are findings made last summer that expand distributions significantly, document natural hybrids that Freeman suggested did not exist (Case hinted at though), and refute data in herbariums and other sources of supposedly reliable data.
Thank YOU for working to get things right in a very perplexing and confusing effort! - Note: Jan Jeddeloh (2010-05-04) - Sure looks like what everyone around Portland calls kurabayashii. By "everyone" I mean the people who can read and work a key.
Maybe the pink albidums are kurabayashii x albidum. I only have one flowering clone of albidum so of course I haven't gotten any seed from it. Last year I dabbed kurabayashii pollen on some seed pods and got good seed set. This year I have happy, healthy seedlings. It'll be a long time before I know what they bloom like.
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